The Progressive Dilema

[Davis Fleetwood]

Naomi Klein speaks of the spot between a rock and a hard place that we find ourselves in.

Weigh in. How do you approach this election?

[Davis Fleetwood]

here is where i come down on this:

[Dutchter]

I might add that "crotchety old Prick" is the correct description for McSame, for certain.

However, having listened to and spoken with Mr Nader on several occasions now, I've found him to be genuinely charming and in possession of a wonderful sense of humor. He'd have to to have survived with his mind intact after battling so many greedy giants in Business and Government for fifty years and counting..

Vote for Nader, if even just for a laugh!

Seriously.

[Davis Fleetwood]

Dutch
Comparisons to McCain's prick not withstanding- those who know me would assume that my description of Nader was intended as a compliment- even as I acknowledge some of the (unjust) baggage he brings to the table.

And Nader has my vote.

[Meredith]

Nader's candidacy "might start to matter in a few states"? It already matters...
Any time someone stands up for my rights I consider that something that matters.

Also, the part about MoveOn is an understatement. Calling itself a progressive organization is a slap in the face to anyone who actually IS progressive. They lost my attention the moment they chose to support Obama over Kucinich during the primaries. The most frustrating part is that if they were behind a worthwhile candidate (ie Nader or McKinney) who actually supports progressive policies there is a good possibiliy they could do some good; open the debates? get ballot access in EVERY state? Instead, they support a status quo candidate and confuse young would-be-progressive voters into becoming a part of the republicratic fascist mess.

Personally, I have no use for Obama. He already caved on offshore drilling (among other things) and being a progressive requires a backbone.

[Dutchter]

Progressive does not mean Obama and vice versa.
The progressive "movement" Leaders have glommed on To Barak as an opposition to McSame. They didn't "Choose" Obama from the get go for his long history of championing "Progressive" policies because he has little or no history of Progressive policies. He's being shaped as an Activist, but has no proof in the pudding.

The "left" in America dreads another term of war-mongering, individual and National bankurptcies, corporate bailouts combined with social abandonments etc etc etc. Therefore they charge forward with Obama's banner in hopes that he will thwart the enemy, not in hopes that he will somehow fix our broken system.

The Left has dropped it's demands and expectations altogether. They (We) merely grasp at vague ideas of undefined "Change" and "Hope" and cross our fingers that Barak's track record of support for the Patriot Act, bailing out multinational conglomerates, granting legal immunity to Telecommunications corps that aided and abetted the Bush Junta in warrantless spying on Americans and on and on will not be indicative of how he will act in the future.

Again and again, I have spoken to average folks that admit their knowledge of Barak's pro-corporate/ anti-liberty voting record and continue to insist that once elected, he will likely change his ways and stand up in support of our wants, needs and rights.

wow.
Has Television media and our education system blunted our ability to reason, that badly?

MoveOn.org should be making DEMANDS of the obama camp to pledge allegiance to the constitution and the Bill of Rights before they open their pockets and start dropping Obama stickers on everybody.

Otherwise, why would an upstart pro-corporate candidate decide to spontaneously Change in favor of the little people?

He'd more likely spontaneously combust.

-Dutch Merrick
"There has to be Another Way"

[BuelahMan]

We are all doormats and it is mainly those 50,000,000 dumb asses who voted for Bush in 2000 that we have to blame (and to thank for waking us up).

Again, we are force fed the Corporate "choices" in which they win either way and the American people lose either way. How convenient.

Apparently we deserve this for being so fucking stupid.

[Tony PhilosophyoverPolitics]

Maybe, instead of allowing our progressive political views to be fragmented and about one or two key issues that personally affect us.... and instead of vomitting out the facts we know about our bullshit electoral process... we should come to an agreement.

It seems to me like the only people who join this are people who have overall similar views in the political arena- we have agreed that to be subjected to the "Obama-Mania" fascade is anti-progressive and damaging to this nation and its international policy... and I'm almost positive no one is willing to plead a case on behalf of "John McFUCKINGshame."

So let us talk about the other LARGE majority of voters, or how about general americans (whether voting or not) who are still in the dark. And how do we deliver a message to them so powerful, that we can radically change the way the system works.

Im talking revolution here folks. And though I care about polar bears and international policy- the fact is Green Party or even fucking Ron Paul will not get into the white house... ever.

lets talk about the "hows," now that we got the "whats".

[jessica]

(this is in response to the interview) Thank you for posting this....(just free writing...so this will not come out as eloquently as i would hope....)
i am sure i am not alone in my feelings here that i am constantly struggling with this, and it's such a difficult and painful thing to wrap my brain around... the idea that i feel i will have to surrender my beliefs, my hopes, my heart, and my conscience, by being "forced' to "choose the lesser of two evils" for the "good" of the country and the world in this election cycle. hmmmm, so many thoughts swimming through my brain right now that it hurts...i think i'll go try to fix up my page and write a blog about it.

stay strong everyone and keep standing up and speaking up!

[jessica]

ok....well, i just watched the second video....and if feel that davis is reading my mind every time he speaks! Now i'll probably get tomatoes thrown at me...but hear me out. What if (by some miracle), our votes really did matter and really did get counted....and enormous amounts of people stood up and voted their conscience and for Nader(oh how i wish it were still Kucinich)....we then wake up on November 5th with McWorse as our newly "elected" "president" and we find out that the votes for Nader could have put Obama over the top? I know, i know....totally not gonna happen....but what if?

[David Rocha]

I would be perfectly fine with that scenario. There's no such thing as the lesser of two evils. If anything, a surprise McCain win would act as an accelorator for mass dissent (I'm sure there would be at least one riot somewhere). An Obama win will only work to passify us (collectively speaking) for a longer period of time while the illusion called "Hope" carries us over for a while.

[wannabechef]

I'm disillusioned. Then again, I was pretty much born into a disillusioned household. My dad was a hardcore union supporter long before he even joined a labor union. He also is a firearms owner. He quit the NRA when they backed Reagan back in '80.

Like father, like wannabechef progeny. It's the Democratic complicity in screwing over the American labor force (otherwise known as "the unimaginably vast majority of Americans") that doesn't get them my vote. The Republican party waffling on what the role of the government is the reason I can't lean that way (is it to oversee the economy or isn't it? If not, are they only there to provide a military since the only social issues they give a crap about are banning rights to certain people and possibly banning certain, if not all, birth control options?)

What I'd like to see in a candidate: Someone with the common sense that if you don't "regulate" (a.k.a. "police") things like industry and finance that you will get the looting, pillaging and mismanagement that's painfully common in American business today. Also, someone who realizes that it should be fine for tradesmen to organize. Industries are allowed to do it to certain extent, so why is it all but viewed as a crime for wageslaves to also do so? Repeal of hamstringing legislation against labor unions would be fine too. I'd also like to see someone who backs some good health care reform. How about doing something with these health care business cabals? Maybe some things shouldn't be for profit. Maybe some things should be held sacred to provide for the good of all Americans, and not to turn a pretty profit. I guess I'd just like to see someone who actually believes in the idea of service to their fellow man to make things better for all...

All these years and I still can't shake my "naive" idealism.

I'm voting for an as yet undetermined guy (or chick, I've got no gender preference when it comes to politics) who isn't in the pocket of the few who hearken back to the middle-ages as "the good days."