Ralph Nader

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Comment by toeg on November 6, 2008 at 7:47pm

Izzie,

We are so far away from meaningful change that it's almost ludicrous to even mention it. There are several paths that we can go down, but it won't depend on us, that's for sure. We're not in this current mess because several multi-billionaires misread the economy. You don't become a multi-billionaire by being ignorant and stupid. This started in 2000 and was accelerated after 9/11. Remember when Bush told the country that to defeat the enemy we had to go shopping??? I shot hot coffee through my nose at that one the first time I heard it. I was trying to imagine Winston Churchill saying, "All we need to do is continue shopping and the Nazis will go away." So they "identify" 19 terrorists, almost all from Saudi Arabia, and they go and attack .........Outer Mongolia!!!!

Then they figure, well Iraq's nearby, and we've pushed them around some. Why not attack them??

And Americans were just walking around like lost sheep at a shearing contest. "Bringing home a baby bumble bee, won't Mr Bush be so proud of me!!" Absolutely no brain cell activity whatsoever.

Once the deregulation of the banking system was complete, and the interest rates hovered around 1%, bankers saw a good way to make some fast bucks before heading out of town. The actual term is "predatory lending" but if you notice, not one suit has been filed. They wouldn't stand a chance anyway. The fleecing of America has been strong over the past 8 years, and it's almost over, at least the first part.

Obama gets the reins now, sorta like handing him the helm of the Titanic just after the iceberg was hit. 'Here ya go good buddy, just keep a steady course. Pretty soon the boat will be steering itself, trust me." We have been royally fleeced and all proceeds will now go to offshore banks with no ties to the world banking system. Someone should do a study as to the current residence of these goons as they leave the country. I know we already have Halliburton in Dubai. They couldn't wait to get out. The others are just laying low, picking up the last crumbs in the major vaults around the country and waiting for their one-way ticket to paradise. We've totally screwed up the banking around the world, and the rippling effect has left Iceland already in bankruptcy, Switzerland, Romania, Bulgaria, and the Baltic States could be next.

Unfortunately, the seething neocons will put all of this on Obama. They've already started and he hasn't done a thing yet. It is very likely that we will have civil unrest in the streets, but not pacifists urging a change in government, but neocons with their weapons killing other Americans "cuz they look weird." That has become a rather poignant concern since I read more and more each day about these guys wanting to get into a shoot-'em-out fight "juz laik wat dey sawr on TV in EEE-Rak."

George Carlin was right, we're all screwed.

Comment by Izzie Bean on November 6, 2008 at 8:56am

Hehe ya I've also been reading about the weapons and ammo people are stocking up on. Most say it's in self defense, but some start saying to kill a certain govt official for treason. I try to gently remind them, "why not call for a trial first"?

A part of me giggles too because they've put all their money into gold, bought food for a year, and have ammo/weapons... but none seem to have a clear plan. Like, how are they going to purify their water? None that I've talked to have any seeds to grow more food. And the gold? If people are starving and wandering the streets for food like in some zombie movie.. who is going to trade gold for food then?

There are groups trying to organize to stop the globalists, end the fed, and other various things. Everything has to be done word of mouth though. In the past two weeks, I've explained to a dozen friends and families about how much we pay for interest to the federal reserve for printing our money. They ask tons of questions. I give them tons of links. Then a week later I get caught in a conversation with a group of them saying 'ya so-and-so is going to raise taxes'. I just sigh and bite my tongue knowing that if we end the fed.. we pay a LOT less tax. But not ONE PERSON will bring that up.

Ooo I also hate the excuse 'well what can I do about that?' Get your butt down to one of the Federal reserve buildings on November 22, call your congressman and tell him to support Dr. Paul's bill to end the fed, and then bring up "End the Fed" anytime the word "tax" is mentioned in a conversation. UGH! Okay, I don't really say all of that so harshly, but I do get the "uhh, I just remembered _____________ and I got to go now" often. I think after a while it's easy to become bitter and say "Let them pay the extra tax then".

Even the Ron Paul movement with their excited and devoted crew took a huge hit on Tuesday. Many of them had stayed around for the Campaign for Liberty movement that Dr. Paul launched after withdrawing from the Presidential race. Their plan was to infiltrate from the bottom up. So they raised money and campaigned for certain local officials that had the same ideals and agenda as Ron Paul. All of them lost on Tuesday. Most weren't even close to winning. I'm guessing that many of those enthusiastic people will now fade away.

I guess that's why I admire Ralph Nader so much. He's fought hard for the American people for years, even while the people have given him a hard time (like blaming him for the democrat's losses in elections).

Comment by toeg on November 5, 2008 at 8:23pm

Izzie,

Indeed, that's how it works. I've seen that the MSM can now supplant the entire local news with prepackaged programs from certain key locations so even that small amount of freedom will soon be found only in the history books.

The main problem, IMHO, is that we don't complain. No one out there is beating the drum of diversity. Take the election for example. I'm ecstatic that we finally have a non-WASP male in the White House. He's just a puppet of the masters, but at least he looks different, dramatically different. A lot of people are going to go the extra mile for him and then some, simply because of who he is. That speaks volumes of what we are capable of doing when we want to, even though he can only do whatever they let him do.

But at the same time, there are certified lunatics out there with small arsenals of weapons who are seriously talking about killing other Americans "once the Black man ruins the economy..." As if it weren't already ruined. They are shooting their guns and writing threads on the net waiting for the "poor trash" to come and ransack their home. Some have even gone so far as to do preemptive attacks on homeless people in the area. This is totally insane. Americans, armed to the hilt, going around and purposefully shooting other Americans.

Amd 99% of it stems from the lies they keep telling and spreading. We have many certified fruitcakes out there with far too much armament and far too little brain cell activity. The elite just has to sit back and wait and these nutters will start killing Americans for the elitists and free of charge.

The US is turning into one sick insane asylum.

Comment by Izzie Bean on November 5, 2008 at 11:06am

Heya Meredith. Sorry to hear you have been sick. I'm right there with ya. This is day 34 of the flu UGH! Hope you feel better soon :)

toeg: ya, that quote by Rockefeller always gives me chills. I actually worked in the news business for a while... produced the morning news for a CBS affiliate in Columbus, Georgia. The news shows are pretty well oiled machines. We weren't allowed to cover much national news.. just local stories. During our one-hour long live show, we'd get one national story buried near the end in between two long commercial breaks. We were told to pull a health segment or something light and cheery for people to start their day with.

The biggest problem is that all the national news is pulled down and recorded from a CNN feed (with pre packaged 2 minute segments) or from CBS (their own 2 minute segments). We never re-edited the packages or verified the information. We just ran the stories as handed to us from the national headquarters. So really, the news is coming from one to two main sources for national news. The local news producers and reporters probably don't even understand that fact. I didn't at the time. I was so busy running around writing scripts.. looking for tapes.. calling in backups when my crew members didn't show up.. pampering the anchors.......... that I never really took a step back and thought about how the system could be corrupt. This was pre-911.

Although the national news is very censored and under control, the local stations aren't (most at least). Reporters at that level are very hungry too. You have to get the local angle on the national story in order for them to even consider covering it. So if you want to get a news story about how 11/22/08 is End the Fed day where there will be protests at all branches across the nation, then you have a local person put up a huge sign stating END THE ILLEGAL FED. Then have some other local person saying it violates city laws or some neighbor who wants to take it down because it's blocking the sun. That would be a story that many local reporters would cover.. and that would get the word out about that day.

Okay, now I'm just rambling (blame the cough medicine) and teaching others how to manipulate the media for free advertising. I feel dirty now.....

........and strangely craving pizza.

Comment by Meredith on November 5, 2008 at 10:06am

I'm glad people are still posting in this group. I haven't been on much because I'm sick (going out to vote for Ralph yesterday was the ONLY thing I did yesterday) and it will probably stay that way a while. I'm pretty sure my polling place had a higher % of Nader votes than the surrounding polling places did; I'm proud of that and now I'm going to go rest and do homework. I'll be back once I stop feeling so tired and sick.

Comment by toeg on November 5, 2008 at 2:09am

Izzie,

Actually, the media is but one of the servants for the powers that be. Here's a quote by one of the members of the groups advocating a New World Order, David Rockefeller:
"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries." David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.

They simply use the media in America as their propaganda tool to reach the masses and keep them comfortably numb (apologies to Pink Floyd). The use a technique known as the 3S's, sports, sex and scandal. It is clear that the sheeple could care less who really runs the government. For most Americans, as long as they have new toys to play with they are happy campers.

I'm certainly not advocating this act, but I strongly feel that the American public will only wake up to the horrors of war when THEY have to battle foreign tanks in the streets, foreign soldiers gunning them down for no reason and foreign cluster bombs which not only explode a first time, but keeps on exploding long afterwards due to the fact that up to 20% of all bombs that make up a cluster bomb don't explode initially. They stay on the ground looking like candy or toys for unsuspecting children. It is truly sad to say that only when Americans go through the same hell they shovel so freely onto other nations for whatever the lie du jour is, then Americans will wake up to the inferno they freely easily, and callously dump on others.

Comment by Izzie Bean on November 5, 2008 at 1:25am

Ya, I find it amazing that when I talk about Ralph Nader or Ron Paul.. my friends and family still say 'who'? My mom said yesterday "Nader?" I said 'Ya, a presidential candidate'.. and she got very confused. Although she did recognize the name when I mentioned the seat belt hehe.

The media just has its hold on America. It's a beast that is winning. I think we can help reform the media... but it will take a lot of work. Perhaps Mr. Nader can help steer us in the right direction. One more corporate giant to conquer?

I agree with you that anonymous voting should be considered at all points and perhaps a printout with the diebold might cause a leak. There has to be a better way. Even paper ballots are causing problems. I saw a video from Florida today.. and their paper ballots were confusing. There were two boxes per candidate. You weren't supposed to check one of the boxes or circle them, but rather fill in all the blank space between the two boxes on the row of the candidate of your choice. Who came up with that?!

toeg said: "Can you say, "baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.????" "

Sometimes, I wish I still said 'baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa'. Being awake can be quite lonely.

Comment by toeg on November 4, 2008 at 9:46pm

Intersting, Izzie,

The voting is supposed to be anonymous, so a person isn't afraid of bad guys going after them later for voting the wrong way. The only way the system could work is if that same voter verified his/her vote just after voting. And even then, there's no guarantee that everything would be tamper-proof down the road.

Your concepts about opening up the debate to more people is a good one, but we have to stop using words like, "viable." That's what they are doing now. Right now, I believe the "viable" threshold is 15% of the voters in the general election and 5% in the primaries. Where the breakdown really occurs is far upstream from the moment the conventions are over and the foot race is on. I helped a Libertarian Party candidate during their primary season. There were several debates, I went to a state convention, and I helped with particular ideological parts that most people aren't very hep on.

The media never covered any of it. C-SPAN did play their national convention, but that's it. No newspaper wrote much on any of the state conventions and votes. It was like a ghost party where Casper was everywhere and nowhere at the same time. And, believe it or not, the Libertarian Party is the 3rd largest one out there, behind the Democrats and Republicans.

In Europe, the Greens and other third parties have become part of the mainstay of their politics since two or three decades ago. Here, we are nothing more than sheeple, told that only two parties exist, and that we must always vote for the lesser of two evils, tweedledee and tweedledum.

Can you say, "baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.????"

Comment by Izzie Bean on November 4, 2008 at 9:22pm

I'm ready to work on our voting system:

1. Diebold (abolish or at least give us a machine that prints off the votes for a recount later)
2. National debates must be open to all viable candidates. We need a law to prevent a corporation from making that decision
3. Limits on advertising. the candidates ask for money.. Americans give.. corporations get the money. seems like there should be a better solution to where the networks don't profit.
4. Write-in votes should always count. In my state, officials toss any vote for a candidate who lost in the primary.
5. Restore the law requiring equal time to each candidate on the news.. including 3rd party candidates.
6. Need a law to prevent commentary political shows on an all news network.. like Olbermann or Limbaugh. Opinions should not be mixed with news.

Just some ideas. Ya, I'm sticking around too.

Comment by jesse vigilante on November 4, 2008 at 9:04pm

I hope you aren't expecting us all to abandon ship on this group after the election is over. I will always respect what Ralph Nader has done for this country, regardless of who occupied the white house.

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